john's 83 J10 Stepside
FSJ's are Jeep Cherokees and Jeep Wagoneers made from 1962 to 1992. They include Grand Wagoneers, Gladiators, J10's through J4000's and any other J-series trucks.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 00:58:55 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: xj: XJ axle swap observations - LONG Hey all, Just thought I would share me recent junk yard search results. I am looking into building my own High Pinion D44 front end for my '92 Cherokee. My original plan was to use a mid 70's Ford front housing and shorten it to accept mid 80's Grand Wagoneer axle shafts with Chevy knuckles (set up for high clearance steering). This should make the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface the same as the Grand Wagoneer axle yet have a high pinion center section. I would either use Grand Wagoneer parts from the Knuckle out (6 on 5.5 bolt pattern) or Chevy parts from the knuckle out (also 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern and I think pretty much the same parts as the Grand Wagoneer) or if I wanted 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern I would use Ford hubs and misc parts to complete the housing. I am pretty sure all these knuckle out pieces would end up at the width. So, I did quite a bit of junk yard searching and measureing. Here are my results: Grand Wagoneer front axle - width - 60 3/4" drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 21 3/8" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 39 1/2" Stock '92 Cherokee front axle (two composite rotors) width - 60 1/2 drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 21 3/4" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 38 13/16" Junk yard Cherokee front axle (solid rotors) width - 60 1/2" drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 21 5/8" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 38 7/8" So, the Grand Wagoneer drivers side is 1/4" to 3/8" shorter than the stock axle, the passengers side is 11/16" to 3/4" longer than the stock axle, and the total Grand Wagoneer axle width is 1/4" wider than the stock axle. Based on this inf., a Grand Wagoneer front D44 axle is very close in dimensions to the stock Cherokee RC D30 dimensions. It is slightly wider and the pinion is offset a slight bit further to the drivers side which will actually help clearance between the diff and the exhaust. I also thought I would swap in a Grand Wagoneer D44 rear to match the new front as far as width and bolt pattern. Here are my measurements of the rear axles. Grand Wagoneer rear D44 - no drums width - 58 1/2" drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 29 1/4" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 29 1/4" Stock "87 Cherokee rear D44 with Moser custom shafts width - 60 1/4" drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 30 3/4" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 29 3/8" Stock junk yard D35 rear axle width - 60 1/4" drivers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 30 7/8" passengers side wheel mounting flange to center of pinion - 29 3/8" So, the Grand Wagoneer rear D44 is 1 3/4" narrower than a stock axle with the pinion is offset 3/4" further towards the drivers side than a stock axle. The Grand Wagoneer rear axle is also about 2" narrower than the Grand Wagoneer front axle when figuring on 1/8" thick brake drums. The spring pads are already set up for spring over and are the same 43 1/2" apart as the stock xj axle. I don't think the pinion offset would cause much of a problem and the different widths between front and rear are apparently not uncommon on vehicles. However, I think the front of my cherokee's body is already narrower than the rear and the tires already look like they stick out further in the front than the rear. So, I really don't want the rear end to be 2" narrower than the front. I could build the front as outlined and end up being perhaps 1/4" wider than stock at the wheel mounting surfaces. Then I could use my current stock D44 rear end (real close to the width of the custom front end when you add in the 3/8" or so of the rear disks) and change wheel bolt pattern on the axleshafts by dual drilling the flanges (if there is enough flange diameter) or selling these axle shafts and having Moser make another set with the correct axle flange. But, in order to maintain the wheel placement that I want, I would need to use 15 x 8 4.5" backspaced wheels with the stock axles. That same backspacing would then also need to be used with the custom front axle and stock rear axle (with bolt pattern change.) I would like to be able to use stock Grand Wagoneer rims or stock Chevy rims for their cheapness and availability, but I think they are more like 3.5" backspacing. Another possibility I am pursueing is to use the Grand Wagoneer D44 in the rear of my XJ with 3.5" backspaced rims. This would place the tires just about the same as the previous setup using 4.5" backspaced rims. However, what to do to the front to get it 2" narrower so I can use 3.5" backspaced rims (wich will also keep the lockouts covered better)? If there are enough splines and enough seal area on the front GW axleshafts, I could build the housing in such a manner as to place the shafts 1" further in the diff. I may have to cut off an inch of the shaft, but I believe that would work. Custom shafts or shafts 1" shorter from somthing else would also work. Lots of thoughts without spending anything so far!! Feel free to comment on anything. Jeff ------------------------------
some internet history
- John Meister and Mike Lacher meet on rec.autos.4x4 circa spring 1995
- Mike Lacher posts "Wagoneer Owners UNITE" on rec.autos.4x4 circa 1995
- Mike and John meet up with SuperKen, Michael Baxter and so on June 1995
- FSJ charter members assemble Fall 1995, emails via "cc"
- http://www.wagoneers.com/john/JEEP/FSJ-charter.html
- http://www.wagoneers.com/john/JEEP/FSJ/fullsize.html
- late 1995 Zynet.com offers list service and webspace
- late 1995 john starts HTML home page on compuserve.com
- Zynet disappears, spring 1996, resort to "cc" emails via john's eudora
- Tehabi.com offers list service
- John takes on role at Off-road.com Jan 97 as FSJ editor, moves FSJ list in Aug 97
- John quits ORC in Nov 97, banned from FSJ list by list server owner
- John forms new list on digest.net and lives happily ever after
- http://www.wagoneers.com/john/JEEP/FSJ-list.html
john's 83 J10 Stepside |
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